I escaped mine last year. Married. It had been 8 years. I read your pieces religiously because they help me regain that trust in myself. Validation between victims is truly so necessary. And the information you provide is always easy to understand and useful. Thank you.
“Escape” being the operative word. There is no reasoning with Cluster B people. I learned that the hard way. I used to think that if I could just find the “right way”, the “right words”, I could get through somehow. There is no negotiating with emotional terrorists. Congratulations. Wishing you a peaceful and sane future.
I believed for eight years that if I just said the right thing, I could reason with people like him. And you’re right, it’s impossible. I needed a feeding tube right after we got married. My body was rebelling. I’ve been well-fed since escaping and I have found solace and comfort in the arms of my friends and family. Thank you. 💗
I’m so happy for you. I hear you. My hair was falling out, I am convinced had I left sooner, I could have escaped a spinal fusion and more. I was literally jumpy and weighed 102 pounds at 5’ 10” so I looked like a concentration camp person. Wishing you amazing health in every regard. Anna Runkle has a book entitled Re-regulation and I have implemented some of her techniques to help manage my nervous system. Ms. Runkle goes by the name Crappy Childhood Fairy. She had to teach herself how to be healthy. I think a lot of us are having to break long-standing generational patterns. I certainly am. I have by no means become a master, but I am working healthier ways.
Anna Runkle is on Substack, in case you didn't know. She also does a great job at distillery, like Cody. I like some of her YouTube videos. These are great resources for people that need help figuring out how to navigate what is often tricky situations.
Agreed. I needed and probably still do need all the help I can get navigating this sort of thing. Business relationships I completely understand, work is something I inherently “get”. Interpersonal relationships? There was a LOT missing from my human handbook.
I don't think it’s easy for anyone! We just finished up transaction with covert narcissist real estate agent. He’s the ‘sweetest’ nicest person you'd ever meet until you learn his manipulative tactics.
I'm so grateful to not be involved with one on an interpersonal level. In terms of romance or marriage, I think it would be hell! Testing these people to see if they can actually ‘make repair’ is now becoming second nature to me. My therapist wisely told me, that's always the ultimate test of a relationship. But, the apology has to be sincere and in the moment, not in the form of a ‘reset button’ or false promises to change their ways. When they play ‘clueless’ that's a telltale sign.
Fabulous post. Two words I have come to loathe the last 13 years are convenience and competition. Everything I cherish is inconvenient and I now believe cooperation is the way forward. A lot of folks do not operate on that level, though. Well done, Mr. Taymore.
From the very first paragraph you are describing my ex-boyfriend (back when I was in my twenties). I went from a serial cheater who made me feel inferior to someone who was even worse. Never cheated but made me think I was crazy. The danger with him was once I started to really work on myself by getting therapy and getting sober, he became dangerous. The real turning point was when I tried to walk away from a pointless argument (and we had many) he grabbed a bag I was holding and yanked my arm back spraining my shoulder. In his eyes he "never laid a hand on me." When I told my therapist, she almost jumped out of her chair. She warned me that he would escalate. When I tried to talk about what happened he turned it back on me saying, "I can't believe you are trying to make me out to be some kind of monster." This finally pushed me to leave.
Thanks for your kind wishes – they both passed in 2022, thankfully that drama show is over. I think I got through it mostly undamaged, but of course it caused a lot of confusion when I was younger, especially.
I have a new book (of course I do 😂) How the Fuck Do I heal From This? Understanding Narcissistic Abuse and How to Put Your Life Back Together by Dr. Justine Weber. To quote pages 118-119 “while deciding to walk away from family can be difficult, it demonstrates self-love, self-compassion, and autonomy. You are being the better person because you are choosing YOU.” Some people have families that are more like cults and leaving is literally the only option but society tries to guilt us back into our respective roles. I’m not into sacrificing myself for the sake of others. I have to thank you for keeping it real, sir. It is refreshing to read someone who keeps it real.
Just found you this morning from a repost of another article. At 71, I never expected to be experiencing this in my life- yet here I am, and in such uncharted waters. Will probably spend a good part of this day going through your library. Love your down to earth approach! Can’t wait to learn more and realize I’m not crazy after all! Thank you!
Very true! But the scars after goes deep. I still often take things personal and think the person saying anything even mildly critical for being angry with me or hating me. ( And judging myself for it of course). Also tiptoeing around silent angry people. Going to dance therapy now to try and teach my body and nervous system How to relax again.
How do you cope with the guilt of not leaving sooner or having that parent for them at all? I struggle with it cause I can see the scars in my children and whatever I do I can Never tease that
It took me 10 years, but I dont feel guilt at all I think. I am a positive person and I always look forward. In practice, my 3 kids situation improved a lot once I left the house. Of course I am with them exactly 50% of the time and my main focus is being the light for them as they have to be half of the week with their sick mom. So this puts my focus in the future of my kids and not the past. Don't feel guilt, you went out.. this is something many find it hard to do.
I lost 15 years to a covert narcissist. Thank you for this, I'm sharing because I wish I had read this a decade ago and someone else might not know they need to read it.
What to do when the covert —but sometimes directly confrontational bordering on psychotic— narcissist in your life is your Mother? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thank you. I’ve been working on trying to remove myself from her life for a few years now… but the farther I get the more she tries to pull me back in, so I still haven’t succeeded. Trying my best to avoid having that “final confrontation”. 😮💨
Dr. Ramani on YouTube is wonderful at educating people about the range of personality disorders. Much needed education, as this is a lot of people today in a country like the U.S.
BPD, NPD etc.
Also, one Shari Schreiber, right here on Substack, is extremely knowledgeable on this subject matter.
I escaped mine last year. Married. It had been 8 years. I read your pieces religiously because they help me regain that trust in myself. Validation between victims is truly so necessary. And the information you provide is always easy to understand and useful. Thank you.
Thank you Suze!
“Escape” being the operative word. There is no reasoning with Cluster B people. I learned that the hard way. I used to think that if I could just find the “right way”, the “right words”, I could get through somehow. There is no negotiating with emotional terrorists. Congratulations. Wishing you a peaceful and sane future.
I believed for eight years that if I just said the right thing, I could reason with people like him. And you’re right, it’s impossible. I needed a feeding tube right after we got married. My body was rebelling. I’ve been well-fed since escaping and I have found solace and comfort in the arms of my friends and family. Thank you. 💗
I’m so happy for you. I hear you. My hair was falling out, I am convinced had I left sooner, I could have escaped a spinal fusion and more. I was literally jumpy and weighed 102 pounds at 5’ 10” so I looked like a concentration camp person. Wishing you amazing health in every regard. Anna Runkle has a book entitled Re-regulation and I have implemented some of her techniques to help manage my nervous system. Ms. Runkle goes by the name Crappy Childhood Fairy. She had to teach herself how to be healthy. I think a lot of us are having to break long-standing generational patterns. I certainly am. I have by no means become a master, but I am working healthier ways.
Anna Runkle is on Substack, in case you didn't know. She also does a great job at distillery, like Cody. I like some of her YouTube videos. These are great resources for people that need help figuring out how to navigate what is often tricky situations.
Agreed. I needed and probably still do need all the help I can get navigating this sort of thing. Business relationships I completely understand, work is something I inherently “get”. Interpersonal relationships? There was a LOT missing from my human handbook.
I don't think it’s easy for anyone! We just finished up transaction with covert narcissist real estate agent. He’s the ‘sweetest’ nicest person you'd ever meet until you learn his manipulative tactics.
I'm so grateful to not be involved with one on an interpersonal level. In terms of romance or marriage, I think it would be hell! Testing these people to see if they can actually ‘make repair’ is now becoming second nature to me. My therapist wisely told me, that's always the ultimate test of a relationship. But, the apology has to be sincere and in the moment, not in the form of a ‘reset button’ or false promises to change their ways. When they play ‘clueless’ that's a telltale sign.
Fabulous post. Two words I have come to loathe the last 13 years are convenience and competition. Everything I cherish is inconvenient and I now believe cooperation is the way forward. A lot of folks do not operate on that level, though. Well done, Mr. Taymore.
Thank you Elizabeth!!
From the very first paragraph you are describing my ex-boyfriend (back when I was in my twenties). I went from a serial cheater who made me feel inferior to someone who was even worse. Never cheated but made me think I was crazy. The danger with him was once I started to really work on myself by getting therapy and getting sober, he became dangerous. The real turning point was when I tried to walk away from a pointless argument (and we had many) he grabbed a bag I was holding and yanked my arm back spraining my shoulder. In his eyes he "never laid a hand on me." When I told my therapist, she almost jumped out of her chair. She warned me that he would escalate. When I tried to talk about what happened he turned it back on me saying, "I can't believe you are trying to make me out to be some kind of monster." This finally pushed me to leave.
Nice article – and you had some really good lines in this one. It’s all true. My father was an overt narcissist and my mother was a covert narcissist.
Thank you!!
Oof, where & when do we form our support group? Fellow overt narcissist father & cover narcissist mum here. Rooting for you.
Thanks for your kind wishes – they both passed in 2022, thankfully that drama show is over. I think I got through it mostly undamaged, but of course it caused a lot of confusion when I was younger, especially.
Oh dear, double trouble. I'm sorry you had to experience that. My parents weren't better. Just a slight variation on the same theme.
Thank you ☺️
Same here! Overt narcissist father and covert narcissist mother. I’m so grateful to have finally learned the language to name it.
I have a new book (of course I do 😂) How the Fuck Do I heal From This? Understanding Narcissistic Abuse and How to Put Your Life Back Together by Dr. Justine Weber. To quote pages 118-119 “while deciding to walk away from family can be difficult, it demonstrates self-love, self-compassion, and autonomy. You are being the better person because you are choosing YOU.” Some people have families that are more like cults and leaving is literally the only option but society tries to guilt us back into our respective roles. I’m not into sacrificing myself for the sake of others. I have to thank you for keeping it real, sir. It is refreshing to read someone who keeps it real.
Just found you this morning from a repost of another article. At 71, I never expected to be experiencing this in my life- yet here I am, and in such uncharted waters. Will probably spend a good part of this day going through your library. Love your down to earth approach! Can’t wait to learn more and realize I’m not crazy after all! Thank you!
Very true! But the scars after goes deep. I still often take things personal and think the person saying anything even mildly critical for being angry with me or hating me. ( And judging myself for it of course). Also tiptoeing around silent angry people. Going to dance therapy now to try and teach my body and nervous system How to relax again.
I wish I had Substack and your posts while I was in still with my wife, could have helped me a lot. Thank you for this important work
Same but with my now ex husband and Sadly father of my kids
Yes, this is for life... My kids were the reason that gave me the power to get out
How do you cope with the guilt of not leaving sooner or having that parent for them at all? I struggle with it cause I can see the scars in my children and whatever I do I can Never tease that
It took me 10 years, but I dont feel guilt at all I think. I am a positive person and I always look forward. In practice, my 3 kids situation improved a lot once I left the house. Of course I am with them exactly 50% of the time and my main focus is being the light for them as they have to be half of the week with their sick mom. So this puts my focus in the future of my kids and not the past. Don't feel guilt, you went out.. this is something many find it hard to do.
Thanks. I know I am the calm in the storm for them, 3 years ago my daughter gave up trying and has been living with me 100%.
Thank you for shedding light on this. Many people suffer silently because they don’t realize what they’re dealing with.
Could not have read anything more correct. Dealt with this for years. You're right the hardest part is re-learning. Thank you for the words.
this needs to be taught in high altitude along with communication skills…
I lost 15 years to a covert narcissist. Thank you for this, I'm sharing because I wish I had read this a decade ago and someone else might not know they need to read it.
What to do when the covert —but sometimes directly confrontational bordering on psychotic— narcissist in your life is your Mother? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Somewhere between no communication to limited contacts Typically any contact will cause stress in your life.
Thank you. I’ve been working on trying to remove myself from her life for a few years now… but the farther I get the more she tries to pull me back in, so I still haven’t succeeded. Trying my best to avoid having that “final confrontation”. 😮💨
Dr. Ramani on YouTube is wonderful at educating people about the range of personality disorders. Much needed education, as this is a lot of people today in a country like the U.S.
BPD, NPD etc.
Also, one Shari Schreiber, right here on Substack, is extremely knowledgeable on this subject matter.
They give to control - THIS!! Big red flag, they give when there is always a benefit for themselves. Important share, thank you.
Good article. I put 1100 miles between myself and a narcissist.