So true, Sissyrivergirl! Perhaps those of us who have suffered at the hands of a real narcissist can help others understand its correct definition (when it's safe to do so!). At least we know the signs of NPD and can run away immediately when confronted with it.
While I agree mostly with you here Cody, especially that Pop-psychology has become out of hand and people diagnose others on the Internet left & right and it has got to stop ✋️
I also wonder genuinely about something else:
We have only so far been able to recognise 1-6% of society as people with NPD , but has someone ever asked why? I don't want to say we definitely have more, but the last 5ish decades certainly have contributed to developing the criteria you listed plus, a lot of times it can be developed through certain childhood trauma (which i have learned from a friend who is a psychologist).
My question is more, would a person with NPD be self-aware enough to go to therapy and get diagnosed? I doubt it.
So the 1-6% we know of are most likely people who have been otherwise visible in other areas or may have been "dragged" to therapy by partners or may be have been detected through other instances they've been encountered with...
What I am saying is, with a NPD profile, it would be difficult to detected and diagnose a person who has NPD because they would most likely not walk into a therapists office by themselves raising their hand to be diagnosed, hence making the real % of people who could have it higher than we think it is.
As I said, that's just a theory and a genuine question I ponder about but wanted to share.
Monique, I so agree with you that a true narcissist wouldn't seek out therapy on their own. I had no idea what dealing with such a person was like until I started living with my ex. He checked off all the boxes Cody mentioned, plus had real anger issues that lead to physical violence! I thought I was losing my mind at one point with his constant gaslighting. We tried couple's therapy for a while, at his suggestion (he wanted a professional to prove me "wrong"). He started yelling at the therapist and stopped going to counseling. The psychologist advised me to pack a bag and get away from him. I did leave him and cut off all communication. Cody really has written truthful pieces to educate us, and I so appreciate that! Congratulations to everyone who has ended a relationship with a real narcissistic. They are much scarier to deal with than the weaponized word people casually toss around!
Interesting article Cody. The term “narcissist “ is over used. It downplays the experiences of those of us who have dealt with one. My ex met 6 of the criteria. It was a brief marriage. I divorced him & cut him out of my life.
Thank you for writing this, it’s such an important topic. As many have said, for those of us who’ve been on the receiving end of these dynamics, it can be hurtful when terminology is tossed around casually to judge people we didn’t like.
For anyone who’s experienced this, an official diagnosis hardly matters. The energy goes into understanding what happened, why we didn’t see it at the time, identifying patterns, rebuilding ourselves, and learning what actually works (or doesn’t) with people who have these tendencies.
I’ve also been in a relationship with someone who loved diagnosing exes, and I should have seen that since the analysis never looked at their own behavior, it was only a matter of time before I ended up with a label too; codependency, with articles thrown at me to “teach me” how I was at fault.
I’m grateful for these experiences because they made me more self-aware: learning to understand my own patterns, where they work, where they don’t, and understanding others without judgment.
This is such an important perspective. The way we throw around terms like “narcissist” online really dilutes the meaning and can even do harm. Thank you for breaking it down and keeping the focus on understanding real patterns and real accountability. ✨
Okay, I was so pumped about this post, I commented when I was only about halfway through. I greatly appreciate the level of detail you included. It touches on themes I face daily as a qualified professional working in mental health. Very nice work.
Your stuff is always top notch, but this one really hit for me.
I’ll tell you and anyone who wants to hear what a real narc is: the person I made the mistake of marrying and stayed with 18 years until I had enough of the vitriol, erratic outbursts, triangulation, gaslighting, lying, cheating and constant criticism. I’m now putting the pieces of my life back together, getting past the trauma bond.
Reading this, I realized how often I tried to hide my pain behind a label. I called him a narcissist, a dark empath, anything but what it really was: me not wanting to sit with my own hurt. What I’ve learned is that it usually takes two two attachment patterns colliding, two wounds feeding each other. Calling someone ‘a narcissist’ is a shield, but it keeps us from looking at our own part. That’s why this piece matters. It reminds me: the hardest but most healing work is to face myself.
i was just talking to my husband about how pop culture has normalized the term. my father is a narcissist, the abuse i suffered is still something i tend to daily, at 29. i do believe some people can exhibit narcissistic tendencies but i’ve lived with a narcissist, i know the game they play.
Hi, Cody. I find this post insightful and useful. It does a good job of describing a dynamic of the over-use and/or ignorant mis-use of some key concepts such as "gaslighting," "trauma bonds," "narcissism," "boundaries," and "triggers" that used to be way more helpful but which are now losing the potency, and even more importantly the precision, that we needed those concepts to have.
The dynamic has contributed to a situation in which, seems to me, yes, as you point out, it is harder and harder for those of us who have been on the receiving end of true and actual narcissistic abuse to be heard, to be understood, to be taken seriously. That can leave me angry, with a deep feeling of despair, very alone, my pain not seen.
What I've been learning to do is build a relationship with another person slowly, listen to them deeply, with compassion, get to know them, and let them get to know me gradually. Then, I'll know my audience better and if and when I share a bit of my story, they've got context. Plus, there's a "we," a context specific to us the story is being shared in.
I have pretty much stopped using the words you've listed. Instead, I describe the problem dynamics that occurred in my past explicitly, unpacking and describing what I'm talking about with specific examples. And any time I do use one of those words, I try to provide as accurate a definition of it as I can, that's based on actual clinical research.
The dynamic of the over-use and mis-use you describe also makes it harder for people who actually are suffering from NPD (and as far as I can tell, they really are suffering, as you point out) to get help. Instead, these people are shamed. Silenced. And then they'll be even more likely to continue abusing others, as your therapist has been doing.
I am so very sorry, Cody, about what happened to you. So many elements of your story match up with things that have happened to me. On what basis am I saying, "hey, I see you" like this? It's based on how you didn't just brand your therapist with a label such as "narcissist" and then scream your head off. You've unpacked and described with specifics what she actually did and what the impact on you has actually been.
Precision matters. I appreciate both your forensics and the accompanying insights you provide on your Substack, here.
Thank you for this. I have many thoughts about this....one of my concerns is that "everyone is suddenly a psychologist" such that MH terms are trivialized and applied inaccurately and globally. Having information out there can be helpful--or harmful--depending on how it is used.
If you are lucky enough to escape a narcissistically abusive relationship with your life, it’s not a term that you use lightly….
So true, Sissyrivergirl! Perhaps those of us who have suffered at the hands of a real narcissist can help others understand its correct definition (when it's safe to do so!). At least we know the signs of NPD and can run away immediately when confronted with it.
While I agree mostly with you here Cody, especially that Pop-psychology has become out of hand and people diagnose others on the Internet left & right and it has got to stop ✋️
I also wonder genuinely about something else:
We have only so far been able to recognise 1-6% of society as people with NPD , but has someone ever asked why? I don't want to say we definitely have more, but the last 5ish decades certainly have contributed to developing the criteria you listed plus, a lot of times it can be developed through certain childhood trauma (which i have learned from a friend who is a psychologist).
My question is more, would a person with NPD be self-aware enough to go to therapy and get diagnosed? I doubt it.
So the 1-6% we know of are most likely people who have been otherwise visible in other areas or may have been "dragged" to therapy by partners or may be have been detected through other instances they've been encountered with...
What I am saying is, with a NPD profile, it would be difficult to detected and diagnose a person who has NPD because they would most likely not walk into a therapists office by themselves raising their hand to be diagnosed, hence making the real % of people who could have it higher than we think it is.
As I said, that's just a theory and a genuine question I ponder about but wanted to share.
Monique, I so agree with you that a true narcissist wouldn't seek out therapy on their own. I had no idea what dealing with such a person was like until I started living with my ex. He checked off all the boxes Cody mentioned, plus had real anger issues that lead to physical violence! I thought I was losing my mind at one point with his constant gaslighting. We tried couple's therapy for a while, at his suggestion (he wanted a professional to prove me "wrong"). He started yelling at the therapist and stopped going to counseling. The psychologist advised me to pack a bag and get away from him. I did leave him and cut off all communication. Cody really has written truthful pieces to educate us, and I so appreciate that! Congratulations to everyone who has ended a relationship with a real narcissistic. They are much scarier to deal with than the weaponized word people casually toss around!
Interesting article Cody. The term “narcissist “ is over used. It downplays the experiences of those of us who have dealt with one. My ex met 6 of the criteria. It was a brief marriage. I divorced him & cut him out of my life.
Thank you for writing this, it’s such an important topic. As many have said, for those of us who’ve been on the receiving end of these dynamics, it can be hurtful when terminology is tossed around casually to judge people we didn’t like.
For anyone who’s experienced this, an official diagnosis hardly matters. The energy goes into understanding what happened, why we didn’t see it at the time, identifying patterns, rebuilding ourselves, and learning what actually works (or doesn’t) with people who have these tendencies.
I’ve also been in a relationship with someone who loved diagnosing exes, and I should have seen that since the analysis never looked at their own behavior, it was only a matter of time before I ended up with a label too; codependency, with articles thrown at me to “teach me” how I was at fault.
I’m grateful for these experiences because they made me more self-aware: learning to understand my own patterns, where they work, where they don’t, and understanding others without judgment.
This is such an important perspective. The way we throw around terms like “narcissist” online really dilutes the meaning and can even do harm. Thank you for breaking it down and keeping the focus on understanding real patterns and real accountability. ✨
Okay, I was so pumped about this post, I commented when I was only about halfway through. I greatly appreciate the level of detail you included. It touches on themes I face daily as a qualified professional working in mental health. Very nice work.
Your stuff is always top notch, but this one really hit for me.
I’ll tell you and anyone who wants to hear what a real narc is: the person I made the mistake of marrying and stayed with 18 years until I had enough of the vitriol, erratic outbursts, triangulation, gaslighting, lying, cheating and constant criticism. I’m now putting the pieces of my life back together, getting past the trauma bond.
Reading this, I realized how often I tried to hide my pain behind a label. I called him a narcissist, a dark empath, anything but what it really was: me not wanting to sit with my own hurt. What I’ve learned is that it usually takes two two attachment patterns colliding, two wounds feeding each other. Calling someone ‘a narcissist’ is a shield, but it keeps us from looking at our own part. That’s why this piece matters. It reminds me: the hardest but most healing work is to face myself.
Well said. Thank you.
This applies to so much of how we use language these days.
i was just talking to my husband about how pop culture has normalized the term. my father is a narcissist, the abuse i suffered is still something i tend to daily, at 29. i do believe some people can exhibit narcissistic tendencies but i’ve lived with a narcissist, i know the game they play.
Hi, Cody. I find this post insightful and useful. It does a good job of describing a dynamic of the over-use and/or ignorant mis-use of some key concepts such as "gaslighting," "trauma bonds," "narcissism," "boundaries," and "triggers" that used to be way more helpful but which are now losing the potency, and even more importantly the precision, that we needed those concepts to have.
The dynamic has contributed to a situation in which, seems to me, yes, as you point out, it is harder and harder for those of us who have been on the receiving end of true and actual narcissistic abuse to be heard, to be understood, to be taken seriously. That can leave me angry, with a deep feeling of despair, very alone, my pain not seen.
What I've been learning to do is build a relationship with another person slowly, listen to them deeply, with compassion, get to know them, and let them get to know me gradually. Then, I'll know my audience better and if and when I share a bit of my story, they've got context. Plus, there's a "we," a context specific to us the story is being shared in.
I have pretty much stopped using the words you've listed. Instead, I describe the problem dynamics that occurred in my past explicitly, unpacking and describing what I'm talking about with specific examples. And any time I do use one of those words, I try to provide as accurate a definition of it as I can, that's based on actual clinical research.
The dynamic of the over-use and mis-use you describe also makes it harder for people who actually are suffering from NPD (and as far as I can tell, they really are suffering, as you point out) to get help. Instead, these people are shamed. Silenced. And then they'll be even more likely to continue abusing others, as your therapist has been doing.
I am so very sorry, Cody, about what happened to you. So many elements of your story match up with things that have happened to me. On what basis am I saying, "hey, I see you" like this? It's based on how you didn't just brand your therapist with a label such as "narcissist" and then scream your head off. You've unpacked and described with specifics what she actually did and what the impact on you has actually been.
Precision matters. I appreciate both your forensics and the accompanying insights you provide on your Substack, here.
Thank you for this. I have many thoughts about this....one of my concerns is that "everyone is suddenly a psychologist" such that MH terms are trivialized and applied inaccurately and globally. Having information out there can be helpful--or harmful--depending on how it is used.
F8cking nailed it!!!!!
Wow, thanks for writing this. Sometimes it seems like everyone is calling narcissist on everyone else like a game a tag… and that’s simply not true.